Socialism is like Recycling, both make you feel nice, but that's about it.

Only thing worth recycling that is actually cheaper to recycle than make new ones is aluminum cans. Everything else is BS as told by those wisemen Penn and Teller.

- GX
"I have no answers to your questions, but I can question your demands." - Motto Inspired by Laibach's WAT

I think it's much like the democratic ideal. It's never worked perfectly, but it makes life easier to think that the problems we face are caused by a misinterpretation rather than a flaw in the theory itself.

In any event, without aspiring to unattainable goals humanity would never have left the cave. The ideology of socialism was the driving force behind the rise in unionism (and corresponding improvements in working conditions) and the ideals of the modern welfare state. Sure these movements have been corrupted over the years, but without them the world would have been far more bleak for countless millions. Humanity needs the unattainable in order to progress.

Maybe it is a lot like believing in fairies from Neverland, but most people (myself included) would rather believe in fairies than believe that humanity is a plague upon the face of the world. People need hope and socialism provides that. Who are we to judge the believers for aiming for an impossible Eden?

There are several fairies that visit me regularly and I have a great relationship with Santa's elves.


"to dream the impossible dream..."

Socialism, IMHO, just isn't for humans till we find a way to get rid of "monster" in all of us that makes we want to expolt or steal from each other. Found a socialism country and corrupt ones will thank you then take it over.

Socialism is indeed an incredible ideal, and it is also true that it has not yet worked. The problem with socialism in todays world is that of capitalism.

Do you guys like working? If you're an ordinary person, you don't, and thus, socialism is perfect for you. With our technology today, one man can produce sufficient clothing for 10,000
people, think about the implications of that. If one man is capable of the much production, and everyone else is similar, the amount of free time people would have would be absolutely astonishing. A socialist nation cannot survive for very long when it has to cope with Capitalist nations, which are so common today. While citizens in a socialist country would have everything necessary to survive, the amount of gadgets, etc, that capitalist countires produce would be very appealing to that socialist citizen.

And while many countries do not have the necessary resources to support themselves entirely on their own, they are forced to trade with countires who have those resources, and are often Capitalist. Now lets say half of the earth was socialist, there would be no problem, as trade between true socialist countries is far simpler than that between socialist/communist countires.

In terms of practicality, socialism is there. You guys are certianly right about how hard it would be for socialism to succeed in todays world, but if things keep progressing the way they are, and the middle class is eliminated, which seems to be happening these days, that transition will be much much easier. Think about not having to buy anything, there would be no managing 401k's, retirement funds, mortgages, etc etc etc. If you work, you are given those things you want, when you get old and cannot, you have a pension of sorts... Seems pretty damn nice to me.

As nice as it would be, there is no way in hell this would happen in neither mine, noe my grandchildrens years....

Do you guys like working? If you're an ordinary person, you don't, and thus, socialism is perfect for you. With our technology today, one man can produce sufficient clothing for 10,000 people, think about the implications of that

And therein lies a big part of the problem. If the people in a socialist society truly don't like working, what's to get them to work when things are provided for them automatically?

Only thing worth recycling that is actually cheaper to recycle than make new ones is aluminum cans. Everything else is BS as told by those wisemen Penn and Teller.

Not only that, but each time I recycle, I take away another opportunity from a homeless person to make some money.

I think it's much like the democratic ideal. It's never worked perfectly, but it makes life easier to think that the problems we face are caused by a misinterpretation rather than a flaw in the theory itself.

Yeah, and like the democratic ideal, it is good when it's mixed with other systems. Rather than debating whether socialism should be the law of the land, it should be how much socialism will improve the world.

Socialism, IMHO, just isn't for humans till we find a way to get rid of "monster" in all of us that makes we want to expolt or steal from each other. Found a socialism country and corrupt ones will thank you then take it over.

That won't ever happen though. It's natural to fight for one's own interests, and if the system can't use that motive to benefit everybody for the most part, then it's not going to work.

Do you guys like working? If you're an ordinary person, you don't, and thus, socialism is perfect for you. With our technology today, one man can produce sufficient clothing for 10,000 people, think about the implications of that. If one man is capable of the much production, and everyone else is similar, the amount of free time people would have would be absolutely astonishing. A socialist nation cannot survive for very long when it has to cope with Capitalist nations, which are so common today. While citizens in a socialist country would have everything necessary to survive, the amount of gadgets, etc, that capitalist countires produce would be very appealing to that socialist citizen.

But the technology has to be created, everything has to be shipped, the energy for that needs to be produced, etc. If a socialist nation can't compete with a capitalist one, doesn't that say something about socialism?

In terms of practicality, socialism is there. You guys are certianly right about how hard it would be for socialism to succeed in todays world, but if things keep progressing the way they are, and the middle class is eliminated, which seems to be happening these days, that transition will be much much easier. Think about not having to buy anything, there would be no managing 401k's, retirement funds, mortgages, etc etc etc. If you work, you are given those things you want, when you get old and cannot, you have a pension of sorts... Seems pretty damn nice to me.

If everybody was given what they want, we'd all have mansions, limousines, robot maids, etc.

And therein lies a big part of the problem. If the people in a socialist society truly don't like working, what's to get them to work when things are provided for them automatically?

I'd also miss the individuality of capitalism. There's something more satisfying about being in a dead-end job with a possibility of getting a better one than to be in a dead-end job for the rest of your life because the government chose it for you.

Not only that, but each time I recycle, I take away another opportunity from a homeless person to make some money.

Hahahaha. You're kidding, right?

Hahahaha. You're kidding, right?

Don't you ever see people looking through garbage cans for soda cans to recycle? It might not be much money, but if everybody were to recycle, that'd be less money for them, and I'm sure they need the twenty dollars they can get from recycling more than we do.

ahahaha. You're kidding, right?

Sandy,

No, messy's not kidding. That was our primary income for a month.

Reply #11 By: Gideon MacLeish - 9/25/2004 3:22:31 PM ahahaha. You're kidding, right? Sandy, No, messy's not kidding. That was our primary income for a month.

Mine too for a little while!

The problem with socialists is that they think that all people are equal. The socialists I've talked to honestly believe that the average garbage man has the same IQ as a doctor.

Smart, hardworking people should be rewarded....which is why many dumb, lazy people support socialism.

The problem with socialism is that it breeds complacency. Ambition to succeed is an option and for those who strive for success and attain it, it becomes their responsibility to carry an ever growing load. In a perfect world, humanity would be free from the shackles of currency and the definition of ambition would be to better ones self - not the acquisition of material wealth. Sort of a bartering system where everyone filled a need according to their abillities. Unfortunately, humanity is still riddled with greed, dishonesty, corruption, and deception so all of the above has and will fail without exception. Until mankind evolves beyond our current shortcomings, capitalism (with all it's flaws) is the best incentive to get those lazy butts out of bed every morning in search of a better future.

Oh and oligarchy314
I know a garbage man or two that started out neck deep in trash and now own their own garbage collection services making more cash than a lot of doctors. Dedication can be just as profitable as IQ in many cases.

For years my father had a terrible job, barely enough money to support the family. But he escaped depression. He knew he would one day find a better job and let his family live the way they wanted to live. He worked hard, worked hard to achieve his goal, achieve his dreams, and live up to his family's expectations. Because of his motivation to do better, we lived better.

That is how it is in Capitalist nations. Because the people need to work hard for what they want, they often get what they want. In Socialist nations, nobody has to worry about succeeding in a job, since their life will be no better if they do. A nation full of unmotivated, lazy people is doomed to fail. In a Capitalist society, people strive to be their best, and therefore it benefits the whole country.

I know my father would have given up if he knew that he could not excel in his career or be rewarded for doing better. A person in a Socialist nation would've given up, most likely. With a nation full of people that essentially 'give up', what can be accomplished?

Zobelisk: Do you know the defintion of the word average? Of course their are some garbagemen that have a higher IQ than some doctors. That is why I used the word "average" instead of "all".